Trackmania in Vista?

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Hotcakes
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Post by Hotcakes » 11 Dec 2006 10:32

It's probably not that easy. StarForce provides different encryption codes for individual game files - there's a very good chance StarForce 4 encryption is not backwards compatible with StarForce 2 encrypted game files and simply ripping out the copy protection would leave you with a game exe unable to read any of the game's encrypted files. This goes some way to explaining why there is no Power Up/Original crack patch.

However, if none of those guesses are correct, I agree 100% a no-cd patch or StarForce 3/4 upgrade should be released, especially now that United has been released and TMO being pulled off the shelves anyway it's not like TMO sales are going to be hurt.

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Post by TaSo » 12 Dec 2006 20:01

I can't get TMN working on Vista Ultimate :( I run it as administrator and I have downloaded the StarForce update.
I've got a DirectX Error:

Code: Select all

This application has failed to start because d3dx9_30.dll was not found. Re-installing this application may fix this problem

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Sorry for my bad english :P
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Post by TaSo » 12 Dec 2006 22:42

problem solved...
I have downloaded a driver update... :oops:

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Post by Toland » 18 Dec 2006 16:26

Couple of points here:

1) When will TM ditch Starforce? It is a peice of crap if ever there was, labelled as Malware, dropped by production companies and shunned by the player community, opening up security holes in the pc and generally f***ing up everything it touches.

2) Why the hell don't TM just remove the damn thing from the Nations game? SF is CD copy protection software and TMN is a free game. Just plain stoopid.

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Post by Leak » 18 Dec 2006 16:40

Toland wrote:2) Why the hell don't TM just remove the damn thing from the Nations game? SF is CD copy protection software and TMN is a free game. Just plain stoopid.
You do know that StarForce also protects the game from being hacked? Nadeo doesn't want people cheating their way into the ladder.

End of story. Now quit your whining and go back under the rock you obviously crawled out from...

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Post by Toland » 18 Dec 2006 16:45

Oh yes, very well said, fool. Whats the point in protecting a game, if the software you are using to do it actually opens up THE PC to being hacked!!??

There are plenty of other protection schemes out there that actually work, don't leave your machine vunerable, don't crash the operating system, or reduce drive speed or any of the other crap that comes with Starforce.

Grow a brain and wake up will you

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Post by Skubidou » 18 Dec 2006 16:48

Toland wrote:1) When will TM ditch Starforce? It is a peice of crap if ever there was, labelled as Malware, dropped by production companies and shunned by the player community, opening up security holes in the pc and generally f***ing up everything it touches.
Labelled by who??? Hackers :lol:

****, i have SF2, SF3, SF4 on my computer and neither Ad-Aware, Spybots, Symantec, MS Malware removing tools have told me about that...very bad tools :lol:

For second point, TMN is free, not open source...and SF is not only a CD protection, but also a program/data protection...

Skubidou:~

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Post by Toland » 18 Dec 2006 16:59

Labelled by who??? Hackers

sheesh... :shock:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarForce

http://www.glop.org/starforce/



"For example, here's one of the common problems brought by Starforce: under Windows XP, if packets are lost during the reading or writing of a disk, XP interprets this as an error and steps the IDE speed down. Eventually it will revert to 16bit compatibility mode rendering a CD/DVD writer virtually unusable. In some circumstances certain drives cannot cope with this mode and it results in physical hardware failure (Most commonly in multiformat CD/DVD writer drives). A sure sign of this step down occurring is that the burn speeds will get slower and slower (no matter what speed you select to burn at). Starforce, on a regular basis, triggers this silent step down. Until it reaches the latter stages most people do not even realise it is happening. "


"Moreover, the Starforce drivers, installed on your system, grant ring 0 (system level) privileges to any code under the ring 3 (user level) privileges. Thus, any virus or trojan can get OS privileges and totally control your system. Since Windows 2000, the Windows line security and stability got enhanced by separating those privileges, but with the Starforce drivers, the old system holes and instabilities are back and any program (or virus) can reach the core of your system by using the Starforce drivers as a backdoor.

Even the Starforce officials admits their software is not 100% copyproof, and that it's causing a lot of trouble to the users: "


These are just two extracts from the millions of internet posts about Starforce.

Personally I cant understand how you can defend this, I mean

- every single game that has come with Starforce bundled has been cracked. Fact. It doesn't work
- it can cause temporary and even sometimes permanent device failure (disk drives)
- it has a cloaked install (you dont know you're installing it), and to make things worse, it isn't removed when you uninstall whatever game it came with.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what you two think. I just hope that Nadeo will listen to the people and employ a protection system that is more compatible with its user base.

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Post by Skubidou » 18 Dec 2006 17:23

LOL, still the same for more than 2 years :lol:

1) You call these 2 links something serious/official? wikipedia even speak about rumors, no prove...give me a link of Symantec, Trend Micro, Network Associate, ... that give the vulnerability and a virus/malware that exploit it...

2) Have system/administrator privilege? 80% of home users (if not even more) are running their windows computer with an administrator account, so each virus (even the simpliest one) can install what he wants, where he wants. No need of critical vulnerability in an application. User Stupidity is enough...

3) TMN don't use a CD/DVD, so the starforce CD Drivers is not even installed with TMN, so no risk for the game

4) Every single game using SF is cracked? OK, so no problem, simply use the cracked version of TMN...without starforce :lol:

5) Nadeo has already listen to this for more than 2 years...and their answer has always been the same: We would prefer not to need to use SF, but it's needed.

5) More over, new Nadeo game (TMU) use SF4, which is even Windows WHQL... No more problem with drivers ring 0, .... So even less reason to get rid of SF now...

Skubidou:~

P.S.: I forgot something... Don't forget to update your
Adobe Reader : http://www.adobe.com/support/security/b ... 06-20.html
Winzip : http://www.winzip.com/wz7245.htm
Real Player : http://service.real.com/realplayer/secu ... player/en/
Winamp : http://secunia.com/advisories/18649/
Even if they don't use Starforce, because some of theses vulnerabilities don't even need user interaction (simple web surf is enough, no need to launch a program on the computer), so they are more critical...

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Post by Holley » 18 Dec 2006 23:10

Very eloquently put Skubi :)
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Post by Hotcakes » 19 Dec 2006 02:38

Skubidou wrote:Labelled by who??? Hackers :lol:
It's well documented that StarForce (prior to v4, the jury is still out on that one) installs kernel level drivers that replace functionality offered by MS and grant malicious software administrator rights, even under a lesser user's account. Anything that malforms the operating system and installs itself silently is malware.
very bad tools :lol:
You are correct. There was a time when some of those tools actually did report StarForce being installed on your system - until they were all payed off (theory).
I cant understand how you can defend this
It's simple. Every person who has had no problems with it is naive, arrogant and foolish enough to believe that it is because they are following the 'rules' - therefore anyone who does have problems with it, must be doing something illegal. That is the mentaility of -everyone- I have seen defending StarForce, including the companies that use it - and StarForce themselves. But it's perfectly OK for, say, StarForce to distribute a torrent to a full game that openly used no protection.

They install their code onto your system without your permission, they introduce backdoors so that any program can do whatever they want to your computer, it even runs in safe mode so you're not actually safe and they provide stolen goods. They effectively tell you that if you don't agree with their philosophies, something bad will happen to your software, then they go ahead and carry out the 'bad' themselves. They are terrorists.
You call these 2 links something serious/official?
The non-wiki one, certainly. These 'rumours' don't get created out of thin air, you know.

If you have a look at the discussion page on the wiki site you will see there has been a large war between the people who want an accurate, non-biased portayal of StarForce... and people from Russia, who make continual attempts to delete or alter large quantities of information. The actual wiki entry has sources for all of it's information and there is no mention that it is a work in progress, or that it has been flagged for innaccurate content - it is, by all means, considered a factual (and sourced) representation of all facts known about StarForce to date.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/ ... 061083/p/5
Posts made of January this year, not 2 years ago as you claim.
I3thHouR wrote:technically Starforce is not malicious, it just leaves the door wide open for software that is.
Another word beginning with mal is malformed. If StarForce replaces secure drivers with drivers that have backdoors, the drivers are malformed. Therefore, still malware.

Also from that page, you can learn that StarForce is based in Russia. And we all know how lax Russia's laws are compared to western 'civilisation's.

That thread was closed after 9 pages on 27th January. Ubisoft have since announced they are no longer using StarForce (due to a lawsuit against them by many of their customers).

http://www.norman.com/Virus/Security_In ... n/32309/en
[quote="NORMAN']Norman advises its customers to stay away from software using these kinds of DRM protections.
The advice to temporarily disable your security software is NOT an advice that should be followed UNLESS it is given by the manufacturer of the security software to solve some issues. At any other time, advice like this has to be considered ill advice and be treated with the required skepticism.[/quote]
wiki wrote:Starforce was completely reverse-engineered by hacker group Reloaded, that released a vast array of documentation about how Starforce work in the system, and unveiling how clumsily several procedures were implemented by Starforce, like emulated virtual machine functions and opcodes. [2] This proves that Starforce is a performance hog on its own, and may be the reason that makes the same game released by two publishers, Flatout 2 by Vivendi (protected by Securom) achieve a framerate up to 15% higher than Empire´s Starforce protected version of Flatout 2, using exactly the same machine.
80% of home users (if not even more) are running their windows computer with an administrator account, so each virus (even the simpliest one) can install what he wants, where he wants.
So 'user stupidity' is a good enough reason to allow a security hole for those concious enough to use a limited User account? Fighting security with user stupidity, are you?!?
Every single game using SF is cracked?
The vast majority of them, certainly the most popular ones. Obviously (and I say 'obviously' even though you didn't get it) free games and demos don't offer crackers much of a thrill.
We would prefer not to need to use SF, but it's needed.
For fear of StarForce distributing a torrent of Nadeo's game? If copy protection is indeed needed (which is hugely debateable) use a system that doesn't brake drives or introduces security holes. There are plenty of them out there and none of them are any less circumvented than the other.
No more problem with drivers ring 0
Source? Did MS actually go through StarForce's code with a fine-toothed comb? I doubt it.
I forgot something... Don't forget to update your (following programs)
The only one of those programs I use is Winamp - and at least all of those companies openly admitted that their software had a security flaw and they fixed it. Indeed, the ONLY reason you knew about them was because they released those updates. None of the above applies to StarForce - in fact that whole argument is equivalent to 'don't use Windows, Linux or Mac OS because they have all fixed security holes that used to exist'.
Very eloquently put Skubi
Eloquent, but so very misguided.

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Post by Skubidou » 19 Dec 2006 09:56

Hotcakes wrote:
80% of home users (if not even more) are running their windows computer with an administrator account, so each virus (even the simpliest one) can install what he wants, where he wants.
So 'user stupidity' is a good enough reason to allow a security hole for those concious enough to use a limited User account? Fighting security with user stupidity, are you?!?
Users who use Limited user account are already aware of risks, and they don't launch all exe they found (except in industry where this is the IT that resticted the user rights...but here we speak for home user. I don't necessarely suggest Star-Force for society). Starforce is not a problem in itself, it could only allow a virus/malware to gain more control (if you are restricted), but you still need to run the virus/malware by yourself. If some people think they are protected juste because they use a limited account, they are even more stupid than the one who don't know...

When you see that virus like that (http://smallbiz.symantec.com/security_r ... 99&tabid=2) are spreading
Note: The W32.Beagle@mm family of worms cannot infect a computer unless the .zip file is opened, the random password is entered, and the executable file contained within is executed.
and the user must have admin rights...

I simply think there are more critical vulnerabilities than an application :roll:

For more than 3 weeks, i receive 2-3 mail/day with W32.Mydoom.M@mm, a virus known since 2004...even from free antivirus


If your reason to not accept Starforce is that it can be crack, so it's not necessary, why do you accept securom? It's also crack, so no need to use it...

And for the fact that this is a Russian society...i don't have more confidence in 'ultra liberal, ready to make everything for making money' society (like Sony and it's rootkit or Microsoft WGA)... :lol:

Skubidou:~

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Post by Holley » 19 Dec 2006 10:39

Alot of MS stuff can install itself with Power User access (the same as XP Home's 'Limited User') - for example I did an Office 2003 install like this the other day as I didn't want to log a user off. That level of access is to secure against user stupidity rather than program security - 'User' level access only (not usually available to XP users who arn't on a domain) is the only level which can do this, and its hard to do day-to-day stuff with just this available.

Since Starforce installs this security hole without anybodies permission it would be easy for a virus to do the same anyway, surely? After all to recieve a virus (provided you have DEP etc installed) you have to have it run on your computer, so where's the virus' advantage in having Starforce? Plus, statistically if targetting Starforce equipped PCs the chances of a virus becoming widespread are negligable so it just wouldn't make sense from the writer's point of view.

Do you rate Internet Explorer 7 as being worse than Starforce, it does after all "malforms the operating system" with code that goes beyond a mere web browser (which is what it asks to install) - at work we've had wireless keyboards & mice, and some scanners, stop working with it installed ... a higher proportion than the number of people who had DVD writing problems with Starforce.
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Post by Hotcakes » 20 Dec 2006 00:59

Skubidou wrote:Starforce is not a problem in itself
So you suggest that using a system after installing a game like StarForce, is similar to using a Windows System that is never used to visit Windows Update or with Automatic Updates switched off?

A security hole IS a problem in itself.
it could only allow a virus/malware to gain more control (if you are restricted), but you still need to run the virus/malware by yourself
Unless you use an email client or browse the web or use P2P apps or...
I simply think there are more critical vulnerabilities than an application :roll:
You're right. It's perfectly acceptable to add more to the list, simply because they're not as much as a threat :roll:
If your reason to not accept Starforce is that it can be crack, so it's not necessary, why do you accept securom? It's also crack, so no need to use it...
No, that should be a reason for a developer not to accept copy protection. As a consumer, I accept securom or safedisc over starforce because they've never had a single complaint about broken drives, performance drains or security holes. The worst that's ever happenned for them is that they've rendered games unplayable. Yeh, well StarForce has that one too, plus all the others.
And for the fact that this is a Russian society...i don't have more confidence in 'ultra liberal, ready to make everything for making money' society (like Sony and it's rootkit or Microsoft WGA)... :lol:
You live in a very strange world, then. You would rather live in a tyrannous/anarchist society than in one where a rootkit was outlawed and WGA doesn't introduce any security holes?!?
statistically if targetting Starforce equipped PCs the chances of a virus becoming widespread are negligable so it just wouldn't make sense from the writer's point of view.
Which goes a long way to explain why it hasn't been done (on any notable scale) yet. But of course, when StarForce becomes more popular with developers, those odds become better.
Do you rate Internet Explorer 7 as being worse than Starforce, it does after all "malforms the operating system" with code that goes beyond a mere web browser (which is what it asks to install) - at work we've had wireless keyboards & mice, and some scanners, stop working with it installed ...
There was another reason that you're overlooking because MS is an easy scape goat. Fact is, IE7 is the first browser since Win98 days that actually doesn't touch any system components. IE7 and Vista's Window Explorer were designed as two seperate entities, therefore IE7 needs to be a full program, therefore incorperating IE7 into XP would make no sense. In any case, since when has any IE6/Windows Explorer updates been involved in voiding the running of attached devices? Only when the drivers were bad, or badly installed... or a security update to Windows was released that tightened measures taken, ie SP2. If a product stopped working after installing SP2, I always blamed the manufacturer. If IE7 installed a similar security measure, I would still blame the manufacturer.

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Post by Holley » 20 Dec 2006 10:59

Hotcakes wrote:Which goes a long way to explain why it hasn't been done (on any notable scale) yet. But of course, when StarForce becomes more popular with developers, those odds become better.
I suspect that the new version of Starforce (especially the 'minidriver') may well become more popular ... they may want to change its name though, lol. Still, you're talking about having to have more than 6 million PCs running a vunerable version of Starforce for it to be a significant proportion of all PCs.
Fact is, IE7 is the first browser since Win98 days that actually doesn't touch any system components.
Not the case, otherwise USB drivers wouldn't have been affected. In the case of wireless keyboards and mice, many were installed using drivers that came with SP2 (ironically many Logitech ones will just plug in and work, wereas Microsoft branded KB and Mouse sets don't want to work untill you've installed a post-SP2 driver that comes with them).
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