The big Dedimania discussion

This is the place where you can find everything related to the dedicated server, control scripts and community tools.

Moderators: Pit Crew, TM-Patrol

User avatar
Slig
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 2124
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 17:51
Owned TM-games: ALL
Location: TraxicoLand (Fr)
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Slig » 11 Apr 2009 17:26

Speedy64 wrote:Oh you are right - thanks for the info.
i thought that it was dirtye who work on TM-DeReCo ? are you both maintaining it ? or it's only you now ?

Speedy64
pedestrian
pedestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 10:56
Owned TM-games: TMUF, TMS

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Speedy64 » 11 Apr 2009 18:20

Would say both - like viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19921
Speedy64 wrote:Hy all

I'm working at DeReCo with Aero, so i think i can say somethink to it :)

DeReCo is a fully new Script with a complete new base.
The Project was started like a "i want something small for my server" last summer or so, never expected to become as big as it is now. It was nice - and i started with aero and a few other people to make it a really useable script with a lot of functions.
I wanted to make it fast and stable, and it seems to be a right decission as it is running on about 6-8 TM-Servers atm without problems - Island, Stadium or any Mixtures, no Problem, also its possible to use TimeAttack or Rounds,...
Look on any of the TMRS-Servers or the havocing.net (1 of it is stadium also) if u want to see the current version (v0.34=newest).

We are working on a kind of small Public Beta-Version since some People asked for it, but this isnt finished till now - but it shouldnt take a long time to ;) only a few configurations and somethink like that...

For any Questions, Wishes or Bugreports,... contace me (Speedy64) or Aero - u can find us on the tmrs- or havocing-net-servers very often :P or write an ingame-message or something - or go on trackmania.speedy64.de to find my 2 servers...
shortly something like: i'm working on the base part + track and something, and dirtye on the rest :P but it would be to easy to make it like this... atm i'm working on the hopefully soon coming first public beta version (maybe on a few servers only at begin) - u can ask both for problems ;)

mfg speedy

User avatar
Slig
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 2124
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 17:51
Owned TM-games: ALL
Location: TraxicoLand (Fr)
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Slig » 11 Apr 2009 20:23

Speedy64 wrote:u can ask both for problems ;)
ok i add the info on the dedimania forum then : http://dedimania.com/SITE/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=989

ЭΛ Ğ尺乇ÇØ
sunday driver
sunday driver
Posts: 67
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 05:42
Owned TM-games: faadfad

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by ЭΛ Ğ尺乇ÇØ » 13 Apr 2009 05:01

good guys. So we will late to see the 1st public version :( :( :(

User avatar
hal|Sascha
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 671
Joined: 12 Aug 2005 16:22
Owned TM-games: TMU, TMN, TMS, TMO
Location: Germany Munich
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by hal|Sascha » 15 Apr 2009 14:32

I just got an idea, something usefull for developers would be a "test-track".
Any track, short but not too short, simple and not to hard, just for testing purpose. All records and other entries for this single piece of testing-madness, will be deleted from the dedimania database every 15 minutes or something. that would made testing a lot easier :mrgreen:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Mainboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
RAM: 2 GB
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1950XTX
Audio: Soundblaster Audigy 4
Internet: ADSL 6Mbit
OS: Windows Vista Bussiness

User avatar
w1lla
TM-Patrol
TM-Patrol
Posts: 1466
Joined: 23 May 2007 07:20
Owned TM-games: TMU, TMN, TMF
Manialink(s): intr
Location: Venray

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by w1lla » 15 Apr 2009 14:35

+1 on that...

We can make a list of what needs to be testing and what controllers spit out weird messages....

That is one thing i would like to see in this topic. No bad complaints but it only states Dereco but what other controllers send bad or incomplete xmlrpc messages to the server....

Code: Select all

tmnforever is nations and united makes it special. tmnforever has united. I need united!

Speedy64
pedestrian
pedestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 10:56
Owned TM-games: TMUF, TMS

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Speedy64 » 15 Apr 2009 15:05

hehe its nice to be a topic in such a big forum :P but dont think dereco is so bad ;) i have fixed most of the problems i know now and its running really fine now - thx to slig bytheway...

backtotopic:
have thought about the fakerecords for my own also..
atm i think the only really way to submit them is via your forum?
wouldnt it be possible to make a kind of request-function via scripting inside the current rpcthing where it would be easier to .... damn dont know right word ... "make them public" - like a dedimania.fakerec :P. like a kind of "record x,track y,'CP-count-error'" or something... bad part is that it could be make real records to fake... but maybe it would be a possibility - if there would be a field in currentchallenge-answer alla "possiblefake=1" so that its viewable only?

Xymph
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 5695
Joined: 19 Aug 2007 12:58
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMF, TM²
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Xymph » 15 Apr 2009 17:09

w1lla wrote:No bad complaints but it only states Dereco but what other controllers send bad or incomplete xmlrpc messages to the server....
No other controllers have been found to send really bad data, only a few (Onyx-2.0, CAR, and one or two older plugins for A/R2 like the one by Calsmurf) didn't include checkpoints. That used to be accepted for backward compatibility with Onyx, as that was originally the only controller besides FAST to support Dedimania.

But as of today, records submitted without checkpoints are ignored, and Slig also deleted all (mostly old) records without them from the database. Servers using these obsolete or incomplete controllers are now really going to have to upgrade. :wink:

In the past week I've written a bunch of scripts to scan the database for all sorts of anomalies, and visually examined thousands of track and player record lists based on the output of those scripts. Thousands of bogus, cheated or otherwise erroneous records have been deleted, and dozens of cheaters lost some/most/all of their records, including the valid ones, depending on how much they cheated.

The reason for that policy was that I found that most cheaters only tried it out for one or a few tracks, so I only deleted an approximately equal number of their other records (as a tit-for-tat, eye-for-an-eye kind of punishment) if the use of a cheat could be confirmed. Some 'strange' records for such players could also be caused by script errors, so it didn't seem fair to delete all their entries without a real indication they were cheating.

Meanwhile Slig has found/fixed a bug in the Dedimania code that accidentally accepted some bogus checkpoint lists (whether caused by cheating or other problems), and another bug where a given login would appear more than once in the records list for a given track and game mode was also identified. All records that were erroneously accepted due to those bugs are being deleted too. Finally, Slig is programming more anti-cheat tests into the system. And the upcoming validation replay requirement will help even more.

So, we are not done yet, but we've already made a huge amount of progress in cleaning up the database.
Developer of XASECO for TMF/TMN ESWC & XASECO2 for TM²: see XAseco.org
Find your way around the Mania community from the TMN ESWC hub, TMF hub, TM² hub, and SM hub

Xymph
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 5695
Joined: 19 Aug 2007 12:58
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMF, TM²
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Xymph » 15 Apr 2009 17:24

Speedy64 wrote:atm i think the only really way to submit them is via your forum?
wouldnt it be possible to make a kind of request-function via scripting inside the current rpcthing where it would be easier to .... damn dont know right word ... "make them public" - like a dedimania.fakerec :P. like a kind of "record x,track y,'CP-count-error'" or something... bad part is that it could be make real records to fake... but maybe it would be a possibility - if there would be a field in currentchallenge-answer alla "possiblefake=1" so that its viewable only?
I think automatic submission of suspected cheated records is pointless as it still takes a human to inspect the entry and decide whether to delete it. Programming the system just takes up effort better spent on other things too, and a submission via PM or email is quick and easy enough for anyone.

The main reason I believe this is that I have so far received cheater reports from only one person (thanks corneb) via PM. If so few people can be bothered to submit reports, then an automated system is overkill. And I believe the reason for the low response rate to this thread is simply that this thread was viewed less than 600 times so far, therefore at most a few hundred people read the initial post. Out of several hundred thousand active players, of which only a small percentage would notice bogus records anyway, that's a really tiny reach among the player community.

That's okay, I understand that most players aren't forum regulars, but that's why our efforts are focused on automated scans for problems and on better detection mechanisms to prevent entering bogus records into the database, as per my previous post.
Developer of XASECO for TMF/TMN ESWC & XASECO2 for TM²: see XAseco.org
Find your way around the Mania community from the TMN ESWC hub, TMF hub, TM² hub, and SM hub

User avatar
Slig
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 2124
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 17:51
Owned TM-games: ALL
Location: TraxicoLand (Fr)
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Slig » 15 Apr 2009 20:13

hal|Sascha wrote:I just got an idea, something usefull for developers would be a "test-track".
I understand that : i do it manually for myself, but you you can't :p

Make a map and give a link to it. I suggest a strait stadium map with >8s top1 with min 3 or 4 cp : it's really easier for tests than really driving a map, even a simple one.
Btw 15min it too short. eventually every hour.

Also, yesterday i added counters (both in server and tool) for badrecords and some kind of cheat, so i will disable those counters for the test map ;)

LilSmiler
pedestrian
pedestrian
Posts: 8
Joined: 27 Mar 2008 22:08
Owned TM-games: TMUF,TMN, TMU
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by LilSmiler » 16 Apr 2009 14:36

i take it the rec db is being tidied/cleaned up atm? Nr1 dedirecs flying all over the place :D

hope it goes well for u guys - keep up the good work 8)

Xymph
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 5695
Joined: 19 Aug 2007 12:58
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMF, TM²
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Xymph » 16 Apr 2009 14:58

LilSmiler wrote:i take it the rec db is being tidied/cleaned up atm? Nr1 dedirecs flying all over the place :D
Not just 'atm' but for the past week. But it appears there's also a new insertion bug that causes bad times to get top-10 record status in parallel to the real top-10. :( I've alerted Slig to it already.
LilSmiler wrote:hope it goes well for u guys - keep up the good work 8)
Thanks, we're doing our best.
Developer of XASECO for TMF/TMN ESWC & XASECO2 for TM²: see XAseco.org
Find your way around the Mania community from the TMN ESWC hub, TMF hub, TM² hub, and SM hub

User avatar
JumperJack
speedy pilot
speedy pilot
Posts: 328
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 12:13
Owned TM-games: TMO, TMS, TMNF, TMUF

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by JumperJack » 16 Apr 2009 16:18

well, dedimania is one awesome piece of software, and i might help you by donating in the near future. dedimania works awesome on my server, and i tip my hat for that!! :gobananas:

User avatar
w1lla
TM-Patrol
TM-Patrol
Posts: 1466
Joined: 23 May 2007 07:20
Owned TM-games: TMU, TMN, TMF
Manialink(s): intr
Location: Venray

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by w1lla » 16 Apr 2009 17:36

Dedimania chickened out on all records?!

http://dedimania.com/SITE/forum/viewtop ... 1195#p1195

Code: Select all

tmnforever is nations and united makes it special. tmnforever has united. I need united!

Xymph
Pit Crew
Pit Crew
Posts: 5695
Joined: 19 Aug 2007 12:58
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMF, TM²
Contact:

Re: The big Dedimania discussion

Post by Xymph » 16 Apr 2009 18:19

w1lla wrote:Dedimania chickened out on all records?!
Read preceding posts before making a new one...
Developer of XASECO for TMF/TMN ESWC & XASECO2 for TM²: see XAseco.org
Find your way around the Mania community from the TMN ESWC hub, TMF hub, TM² hub, and SM hub

Post Reply