cheaters

General Discussion about Trackmania Nations ESWC.

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Re: cheaters

Post by Knutselmaaster » 28 Sep 2008 12:08

Hach-Que wrote:
That's easy, simply send the times at the end of the race to the banlist server, then you can calculate the different between each of the times between the average of the top 10 dedimania records like so:

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Time            Average           Difference
-----------------------------------------------
0.16            50.45             50.29 << obvious cheating here
51.00           50.45             0.55
etc..
Of course, you are only including times that are less than the average top 10. :1
And what happens if it's a new, very hard track?
Everybody that playes it for the first time will take for instance 2 minutes.
After some practice, or someone who has more skills will finish the track in 1 minute something.
So the latter will be banned as cheaters because the first few records are very slow ones?

Same thing if a track has only been on a "noob" server and after that comes on a "pro" server....

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Re: cheaters

Post by weerwolf1 » 28 Sep 2008 16:41

I second that Knutselmaaster, and above all, i would not try to make this an automated system because it would be vulnerable to 'flaws'. and if the plugin would become successful this player would be banned on a major league of servers. We would not want that to happen. I think its best to maintain a manual process, committed to masteradmins who hopefully look at each case in good effort.
Im in any way convinced of the potential this plugin could have, because it could not only be used for cheaters....
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Re: cheaters

Post by Hach-Que » 29 Sep 2008 07:20

N3D wrote:Why not make a plugin that checks if every cp has a time?
Well instead of my system, we could measure the fastest possible time between checkpoints (car travelling at maximum speed with checkpoints placed infront of each other), and if the time between checkpoints is less than that time (in case they decide to move their car through all the checkpoints one after another in order to trick this check), then they are obviously cheating.
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Re: cheaters

Post by Mac Matrix » 29 Sep 2008 10:57

Hach-Que wrote:
N3D wrote:Why not make a plugin that checks if every cp has a time?
Well instead of my system, we could measure the fastest possible time between checkpoints (car travelling at maximum speed with checkpoints placed infront of each other), and if the time between checkpoints is less than that time (in case they decide to move their car through all the checkpoints one after another in order to trick this check), then they are obviously cheating.
I think that's probably the best way.

The thing is with figuring the ultimate fast time on a map is that yes, sometimes Dedi seems to screw up. Also there is the issue that sooner-or-later a cut may be discovered on a track that would cut the ultimate time by a couple seconds (or more) so a method to detect direct cheating times needs to be able to understand when someone hasn't cheated but just found a shortcut.

If that makes sense.

In this you also need to consider the possibility of this cheat. The cheater could just do it for a couple seconds between two checkpoints to give an otherwise inconspicuous time that looks normal on the scoreboards but isn't. Does the validation tool pick up on things such as that?
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Re: cheaters

Post by tma » 29 Sep 2008 13:18

Hach-Que wrote:Well instead of my system, we could measure the fastest possible time between checkpoints (car travelling at maximum speed with checkpoints placed infront of each other), and if the time between checkpoints is less than that time (in case they decide to move their car through all the checkpoints one after another in order to trick this check), then they are obviously cheating.
What for? Seems like you're basically trying to re-invent the referee-function.. The referee probably does its job far better than anything you could ever hope to cobble together using the rather limited (in this case) set of xmlrpc-callbacks available.. What's needed here is a global banlist/infrastructure and some "legal babble" to make it work; not a cheat detection algorithm.

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Re: cheaters

Post by Zooz » 29 Sep 2008 13:34

Well crap. Looks like I'd be on this banlist. I have some impossible dedimania recs from a plugin bug in Laps on some FET tracks. Thanks guys.

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Re: cheaters

Post by Knutselmaaster » 29 Sep 2008 14:19

Zooz wrote:Well crap. Looks like I'd be on this banlist. I have some impossible dedimania recs from a plugin bug in Laps on some FET tracks. Thanks guys.
Reading the responses above there will be a whole plethora of plugins.....
We're not implementing any automatic cheat detection at all, only an automated banlist system.....

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Re: cheaters

Post by Hach-Que » 29 Sep 2008 23:53

Mac Matrix wrote:
Hach-Que wrote:
N3D wrote:Why not make a plugin that checks if every cp has a time?
Well instead of my system, we could measure the fastest possible time between checkpoints (car travelling at maximum speed with checkpoints placed infront of each other), and if the time between checkpoints is less than that time (in case they decide to move their car through all the checkpoints one after another in order to trick this check), then they are obviously cheating.
I think that's probably the best way.

The thing is with figuring the ultimate fast time on a map is that yes, sometimes Dedi seems to screw up. Also there is the issue that sooner-or-later a cut may be discovered on a track that would cut the ultimate time by a couple seconds (or more) so a method to detect direct cheating times needs to be able to understand when someone hasn't cheated but just found a shortcut.

If that makes sense.

In this you also need to consider the possibility of this cheat. The cheater could just do it for a couple seconds between two checkpoints to give an otherwise inconspicuous time that looks normal on the scoreboards but isn't. Does the validation tool pick up on things such as that?
No the minimum time is not per-track. The minimum time is simply the smallest possible time you can have between two checkpoints on any track. I've done some testing and the smallest time I could get (with a full lineup of purple boosts and two checkpoints) is about 0.28 seconds, however I'm not sure this is the fastest time.
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Re: cheaters

Post by w1lla » 30 Sep 2008 09:24

Well the most plugins have nice ideas. But most miss the huge argument for cheaters.

When a cheater is banned he will cry on this forum. To make it a little nice for them they should give proper proof of that they cheat. Had a conversation over msn and a cheater cried why i was angry at him Well i told to him.her that he/she should provide evidence if he really cheats if he cant provide the info he will be banned. Thats my idea of how it should work.

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Re: cheaters

Post by Warrior » 01 Oct 2008 13:09

you know whats real funny i warned you guys about this months ago and you all posted that you cant cheat in trackmaina

why not think about asking punkbuster to support trackmaina
like thay do with need for speed and meany other games

chearters are cowards and noobs that want to ruin all the fun in gamming for there own glory

its time to make a stand befor its to far out of hand

Humm cant say i didnot warn you guys about this before
now join in the anti gamming cheat movement befor trackmaina is a dead game
it wont be long befor thay figure out ways around you little plugin bans and global plugin bans this is a growing fact that players are tought that is ok to cheat thay have no morals or respect for you or themselfs

Join the anticheat movement get servers streaming and
ban these little punks

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Re: cheaters

Post by Warrior » 01 Oct 2008 13:19

oh i also must add that if you disagree with anti cheat softwhare and server streaming database s theres something wrong with your thinking punkbuster has been a proven anti cheat system for years thay dont make false ban s
yes thay do make mistakes but if found out thay fix it

are you a fraid to join in and help rid the internet of these lowlife cheating little sh!ts that cant play fair and destroy every thing hard working ppl make

Chearters are cowards that cant win unless thay cheat and thay will do it at anyones expance
and at any cost
thay care nothing about the game only about there ranks and the ability to brag and insault a good old schooled player

if you take away there cheats and hacks and tie my right hand behind my back and shoot me in my left
ill still beat them couse there skill is in there cheat not there playing

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Re: cheaters

Post by Knutselmaaster » 01 Oct 2008 13:56

I totally agree with the punkbuster part.
I played Americas Army for some time, where punkbuster is intergrated, and the only inconveniant is that you have to wait a few seconds sometimes for it to be updated.
It hardly uses any system resources at all.

What happened to starforce anyway?
If i remember well, that was intergrated in earlier versions of TrackMania and it should prevent cheating aswell as illegal copying, correct me if i'm wrong.

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Re: cheaters

Post by woki » 02 Oct 2008 12:01

I Think it is a good idea to make punkbuster for trackmania.

I dont know why does Nadeo make a punkbuster for trackmania nations :S

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Re: cheaters

Post by TStarGermany » 02 Oct 2008 12:57

i got a few more ideas for blacklisting people globally, maybe you can integrate that.

1) whenever someone says something nasty (from a badword list)... after all we don't want trolls and unfriendly people in the game,right?
...include all potential bad words from all languages into that list... example: if someone types "captain", he shoud be blacklisted immediately, because it contains "ptain", which is commonly used by the french for "putain" ... not knowing about them is no excuse for using them... it's your fault, if you're an uneducated idiot after all.

2) whenever someone uses an offensive avatar... i mean, the game has an age rating of "3+" written on the dvd cover, so let's keep it clean.. everyone with erotic,gore,religion,whateveryoufindoffensive should be removed immediately. do it for the children !

3) the same goes for nicknames... offensive nicknames are badwrong.. use the badwords list from (1) PLUS the extended list from (2).

4) the same goes for track names, server names, advertisement signs and everything else! use the badwords list from (1) PLUS the extended list from (2).

5) if you cheat, your whole harddisk must be deleted and your ISP contract will be cancelled.

6) a minority finds that, "cutting" is offensive and like cheating... since we respect the opinion of minorities, see (2) to (5) for consequences.

7) since the "war on terror" is not over yet, we should pre-emptively ban everyone from a country, where muslims live...errhhh i meant: where islamist cheater cells could hide (the guys who have long beards and run around with white sacks as clothing).... just to make sure they don't say or do anything "offensive" in the future...

...
that should be sufficient for now. can you integrate that ?
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Re: cheaters

Post by Knutselmaaster » 02 Oct 2008 14:22

mmm
Since in the last century the germans started a worldwar twice i'm more afraid of them than of our in-Allah-believers, so well ban them too including option 5.

And bad sence of humour should be punished too.

So there you go TStarGermany, back to playing dominos (the analogic version that is)

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