Laddertop rules discussion

Here's the place to discuss anything related to TMF ladder ranking, special "ladder servers", rank limit rules and possible issues you might have with this system.

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wilameta
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by wilameta » 02 Oct 2008 05:16

I like that suggestion. :thumbsup:

Muck-y
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Muck-y » 07 Oct 2008 17:59

dirtye wrote:The Ladder in TMU was good and better was Ladder in TMS, never there was an discussion lke this, only StadiumPlayers in Nations had these Problems,
so my Plan where disable LadderRankings in TMNF or seperate them, its a Free Game and i think its less then 10% who buyed TMUF after playing TMNF.
Good Idea, I agree about TMS ladder.

and thx TMRS Aero, I found the fun back on your TMRS Island Pro +50k server :1

THX TMRS Aero

Greeds Mucky

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Zooz » 07 Oct 2008 18:30

I was at the top of the TMS ladder for the better part of a year and I thought it was terrible. I don't feel like writing an essay about it again but it was quite easily abused in a variety of ways. I vaguely remember writing about it before, maybe you can find something :P

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by prisoner » 14 Oct 2008 20:20

o my GOD

Its so bo000000ooring now

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Yorkshire » 16 Oct 2008 11:32

Hi,

I would like to add my two-pennies worth:

I'm currently ranked at just over 1000, despite being crap. I could easily get to 500 if I chose to.

To me this makes a mockery of the ladder, it is purely (apart from the top few hundred) based on the amount of time you can play.

The only way (IMO) the ladder can be brought into some sort of realistic shape is for points to be deducted during normal racing.

I would propose a system as follows:

Assume 21 players on the server. Middle finisher (or middle two finishers if there was an even number of players) get no points. Finishers above this get 10 points per place, so in this example the winner would get 90 points, the person who finished 9th would get 10 points etc. The same for people finishing 12th or worse, but with the points being deducted, so last place (20th) would get -90 points.

One argument against this would be busier (larger) servers would give out more points, but that would only be the case up 60000 anyway, as after that the number of players is capped by Nadeo. This currently happens with the existing LP system as well.

Nadeo's ladder equalisation could still take place on a Monday morning, and the existing server ladder ranks could still be maintained.

I really think this would equalise things, and because of Nadeo's deductions on a Monday it would mean players couldn't just get to a rank and avoid playing.

Anyway, there it is. Please don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to be constructive.

Regards,

Nick.

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by jamie_macdonald » 23 Oct 2008 19:11

Hi all,

To be honest i like it now ... i loved the game before but now the ladder is slowly taking shape for the more skilled/consitent drivers to take the top ... i expect to soon drop alot as the faster ones overtake .. i hope this will happen to prove the system is working as i am a good allrounder but not very fast!

The only thing i feel is needed is the mandatory queue system inbuilt (to stop player selections in some uper server) and to make a queue forced would save also server lockins (ie a team with more that 8 players filling a RoC server and not budging)
Also i would maybe liek to see some timegame consideration. ATM with the RoC servers the hours fit well for "most" europeans but i vcant help feel that as an international game maybe another slot 12 hours later could be wise (maybe only letting certain regions play in that zone if possible)

I feel the system has improved vastly ... and with a little patience and tweaking it could be perfected. At least we are starting in the right direction.

Another issue is the moderation. Its far too slow to react on rulebreakers and far to light on its punishment ... so i feel the floodgates are open ... hence TMRS sayin f$%k nadeo rules ... im sure with them loosing paid accounts as a risk they may not be so "loose" and "cocky"... I am deeply ashamed with TMRS atm and i feel the respect i had for them had gone totally!

Well thats my ramble .. have fun and enjoy the game ;)

PS-Mucky you would say you like TMRS as they are now cheating also :P

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by occam » 24 Oct 2008 14:36

 

of course - you can't please everybody

some liked the tms-ladder in which one apparently could loose points directly
(although zooz statet this had drawbacks too )

some want an open-ended ladder, there is a reason why it was skipped
and i really don't want to drop the b-word, since i try to stay neutral on that topic :->

i don't think a 110k ladder would bring any improvements
because there would be no difference except
if we had a 110 ladder now
some people would soon ask for an 120k ladder :->

i guess to treat nations and united different (other than the doubled
points for the old environments - stadium is also 1x on tmu
servers ) would also rather complicate the ladder

and the point is: nadeo needs an easy system,
any complicated system is either not practical,
not affordable, or not very safe

and the ladder is way cooler than many people
realize - i liked it when i read the first post
about it in forum
although i like the new rules
0~50, 0~60, 20~70, 40~80, 60~90 and 80~100k GMT 15 to 18 (instead of 17h)
even better than the original smaller ranges

and that the top100 can only play three hours on sunday
is ingenious - this way nadeo made sure skill matters
otherwise less skilled players with a lot stamina
an free time would be crowding the top100

now it is guaranteed that at least the top100 of the ladder will have
to do a good job to get - and stay - there

and another plus for Nadeo:
the limited time slot also makes it easier to control

i think nadeo did a fantastic job

they have to think of all: the beginners, the casual gamers, the
nerds, the tournament gamers
(though the latter probably might
not be that interested in the ladder :->)

at least i wouldn't be interested in the ladderrank
if my nickname was xenogear or frostbeule and
i won eswc 2007 or 2008

would be nice though if there was only one figure
which is computed from ladderpoints, dedimania-records,
skillpoints and even tournament-results - but that sounds insanely complex

this than also would focus more on skill and it would be a system
that more likely puts equally skilled players together

per definition the winner of ESWC would be ranked very high,
even without playing the ladder and without any
solopoints (skillpoints - tmu)

but the system would have to be affordable AND bulletproof against manipulation
and that contradicts the most important thing - my ideal
system wouldn't be very simple -
it would be rather complex and that would neither be very
affordable nor very safe

the more complex the system would be - the more vulnerable it probably will
become -- after all - you can't hack into an abacus :-> --

 

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by jamie_macdonald » 25 Oct 2008 14:22

Hehe some nice thoughts occam ... but yeh .. simple is more managable eh .. allthough tell that to nadeo who had to script the quota and player vs same player calculations each wk now for there database ^^ ...

Has turned out quite nice eh ... i just think we need a campaign to get some of the top tourney drivers in more often to correct the standings as i am 16th ... i know i'm consistent and i try my best (when needed) for an oldie with slow reactions ^^ but really there are some great great player out there that need to be infront of me ;)

Also i need the same people to Pop in ET|Generation more often .. as the records on the newer aseco need the "bar raising" too ^^ :plugserveremote: ;)

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by wilameta » 26 Oct 2008 02:58

Perhaps a community created ladder system using some or all of the data Occam mentioned would be a nice addition to the official ladder.

I'm sure I don't have the knowledge to know if it's possible but maybe?

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by dirtye » 30 Oct 2008 00:03

PS-Mucky you would say you like TMRS as they are now cheating also :P
Mhh can u explain that???
I think u have a big prob dude, non stop WATCHINGTHESETTINGS and talking dumb like this?!

U have empty servers maybee?

I say it once again, no cheat possible or any @ us.
All codet in a SelfMade ServerTool and all cheaters get banned(dont know why nadeo didnt code it in servers too)

Some probs in our Autoreload config but this is now fixed like the Authortime limits for each server, for me TM is nearly dead but i love all my playerz and thats why i code @ servertool (didnt see so many changes/hadnt have this lot of worx before, because all days new rules, when is it finished?!).
GG (maybe we see us) Aero

PS: Thought about these peoplez with family and childrens, and have no time @ an free (no work) sunday to play TM?
Take a look u u see that the most of this are "inactive" and 80% of TM Players was +18 and more

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by jamie_macdonald » 30 Oct 2008 06:29

dirtye wrote:
PS-Mucky you would say you like TMRS as they are now cheating also :P
Mhh can u explain that???
I think u have a big prob dude, non stop WATCHINGTHESETTINGS and talking dumb like this?!

U have empty servers maybee?

I say it once again, no cheat possible or any @ us.
All codet in a SelfMade ServerTool and all cheaters get banned(dont know why nadeo didnt code it in servers too)

Some probs in our Autoreload config but this is now fixed like the Authortime limits for each server, for me TM is nearly dead but i love all my playerz and thats why i code @ servertool (didnt see so many changes/hadnt have this lot of worx before, because all days new rules, when is it finished?!).
GG (maybe we see us) Aero

PS: Thought about these peoplez with family and childrens, and have no time @ an free (no work) sunday to play TM?
Take a look u u see that the most of this are "inactive" and 80% of TM Players was +18 and more
As for explanation you know that in the [TMRS] Intentional Cheaters thread i posted... so no need explain ;)

Im glad you got your problems fixed .. and llok forward to some racing with you ^^

As for the PS.
I am quite sick of people stating that the sunday rule is unfair because no time etc... the concept of forevers new system is to make top end "competition" and bottom end (of ladder) for "Game"

FormulaOne races are also on sunday afternoons ... or evenings or mornings (depending where the race is) but the english players of that do not moan that the japanese grand prix is on at early hours of there morning .. no .. they just get up fly there and partake in the competition.

The whole point of the new top end common "sunday racing" is to have regular tough racing with small groups (just like a real tournament) not to be a game for ladder whoring for pts ... But real hard racing at a more proffesional level than just "fun gaming" you want fun no one stops you ...

But with all the theories for "i dont have the time" or "i have family" or "i work sunday" would you really complain and write to the FIA and say there are unfair for running there competition when they do as you have a day job? i think not .. and neither should you here with nadeo ..

The only change is that ingame not just on ET or ESL or ESWC we now have a more pro side of dedicated gaming ASWELL as the good old TMU style fun gaming ... now really how can you complain when they now include all types of drivers now and not JUST fun players as it was before? (seems selfish and ignorant) i see it as improved and more "inclusive"... the people who say they will no longer play for the rules are just ladder point whores who are sulking cause they no longer have it there way (easy)... no loss ;) ... for the other "grown up" gamers who want to have fun are still doing so ... i suggest you all get over the change and suggest something construcitve or better (but i doubt you can (for the whiners at least lol))

So now you can "game" at whatever style you please ... why not just do so and have fun? .. after all thats what "game" is for ;)

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by dillpickle » 31 Oct 2008 07:16

Hey guys,

Just a quick suggestion, input if I may: Is there any way to look at your TOTAL ladder points that you have accumulated upto the present day? I think that option should be there, either in ur in-game profile or elsewhere because it represents, in a way, the amount of time you've put into the game. The way the ladder is set up now, ur points just disappear points you worked so hard for & spent so much time EARNING, no matter what the relative ranking system is. That's all. I hope someone understands what I mean.

My rank went from 200's to now 800's, haven't played in over a month, so can't say that I'm impartial to the new system but something that u worked for shouldn't be subtracted just like that without some kinda record! Just my 2 cents. Peace!

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by jamie_macdonald » 31 Oct 2008 18:01

dillpickle wrote:Hey guys,

Just a quick suggestion, input if I may: Is there any way to look at your TOTAL ladder points that you have accumulated upto the present day? I think that option should be there, either in ur in-game profile or elsewhere because it represents, in a way, the amount of time you've put into the game. The way the ladder is set up now, ur points just disappear points you worked so hard for & spent so much time EARNING, no matter what the relative ranking system is. That's all. I hope someone understands what I mean.

My rank went from 200's to now 800's, haven't played in over a month, so can't say that I'm impartial to the new system but something that u worked for shouldn't be subtracted just like that without some kinda record! Just my 2 cents. Peace!
Maybe a screenshot? .. if i beat my peak of position ... i screen it .. for memories sake ^^

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by wilameta » 01 Nov 2008 02:01

dillpickle wrote: My rank went from 200's to now 800's, haven't played in over a month, so can't say that I'm impartial to the new system but something that u worked for shouldn't be subtracted just like that without some kinda record! Just my 2 cents. Peace!
Imo that is exactly what makes it a brilliant ladder system.
Play long, hard and well and you can get to the top, stop playing and you will no longer be there.

However, I agree a 'Ladder History Page' might be a nice thing for those who care about such pursuits. :mrgreen:

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by SmashingDeluXe » 28 Nov 2008 16:18

Imo that is exactly what makes it a brilliant ladder system.
Play long, hard and well and you can get to the top, stop playing and you will no longer be there.

However, I agree a 'Ladder History Page' might be a nice thing for those who care about such pursuits. :mrgreen:
yep in this point of view I can agree...
but I can't understand why Nadeo have pushed up rounds like it is right now.

I mean, timeattack demands not the same skill as rounds but rounds demands not the same skill as timeattack.
The argument to play rounds on server which are higher than 60k because all bigh tournaments are in rounds is not a valid arguement.

TrackMania was and still is a game for fun. there are enough leagues for this game to play real tournaments. The game it-self doesn't have to be another one in my opinion.

Short:

Allow also Timeattack on higher servers than 60K and why not mini techmaps?
this maps demands also skill.

is not friendly for "fun" gamers.

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