Laddertop rules discussion

Here's the place to discuss anything related to TMF ladder ranking, special "ladder servers", rank limit rules and possible issues you might have with this system.

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Zooz
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Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Zooz » 29 Sep 2008 15:33

Well, let's try to talk about the ladder rules in general again. The last thread had to be closed due to flaming, so this time I'll be pretty strict about that: Don't do it, warnings / post deletions / bans may follow.

Ladder rules?
Yes. To make competition for the top of the ladder more about driving skill rather than clever cheating, some rules were introduced to restrict what players can do in the top part of the ladder. The bottom part (containing every player with less than 50.000 points) is free for all.

Basically, the 50k+ part of the ladder is for competition, the rest is for casual play. If you don't like the restrictions in the upper regions of the ladder, the under 50k servers are probably what you're looking for. But that's of course not always the case, and rules can always be improved, so we can talk about them here. Of course, no one knows if Nadeo actually reads this topic and considers the posts, but it's still nice to gather ideas.

Currently, this is what they show you when you try to order a ladder top server:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/952/ ... lesgv8.gif

That's not everything though. Here's the history.
These were the original ladder rules: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2264 ... dersy5.jpg
Then these instructions followed: viewtopic.php?f=132&t=16460
Then there were some changes: viewtopic.php?f=132&t=17013
And clarifications: viewtopic.php?f=132&t=17282
Then the latest update: viewtopic.php?f=132&t=17658

So that's what we're talking about here, pretty much. If you see a server breaking these rules, post a new thread about it and don't put it in this general discussion topic.

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by R602 Klompie » 29 Sep 2008 15:46

I just noticed that you un-locked the "ladder" issue, therefor a small reaction from my side...
Do NOT allow players with a rank higher then 50.000 to play on the low rank servers, and do so with the other ladder points as well.
meaning a 90k + player cannot drive on a <90k server... and so on for the other rank server limits. This would mean that one cannot drive on ones own server at times for points, but it will allso reduce the "boosting" actions tremendously.Every one is always moaning about the boost issue...this might be a good step towards solving the issue.
Now I hear you saying yes, ok but what if I want to drive on my own lower rank favourit server?? Then disable the points ladder for the player, so he wont be able to boost his "friends" or "foe's". Most people will NOT be happy with me for trying to find a resolution to this issue, but imho I think it would be a fair step towards solving this "problem". Putting it inside scripts of the "public"plugins will not be a solution as most of the people will know how to change it again, so if ever thought about or used I think it should be inside the "game"it self.
let me know what ya think , ok?
Klompie,
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dont drink'n drive

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Zooz » 29 Sep 2008 15:54

If you want to go that way, it would be better to just disallow >50k players to get points on <50k servers. Not letting them on there is just so impractical that I'm not even going to go into it further.

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by R602 Klompie » 29 Sep 2008 16:09

Once points gained over 50.000 dont make it possible that the player "boosts" lower ranked players inside a <50k server.
And do the same thing with players that drive in the higher ranked servers......
Meaning that a >90k player cannot give points in lower ranked servers, but only in a >90k server.

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by RdV » 29 Sep 2008 17:06

Do NOT allow players with a rank higher then 50.000 to play on the low rank servers, and do so with the other ladder points as well.
meaning a 90k + player cannot drive on a <90k server... and so on for the other rank server limits.
Well, this wouldn't be the best to do.. Cause then you mess up the whole team play thingy. For example, my rank atm is 1200. But that of a teammember of mine is 13.000, then when I want to play with that teammember, I can't because I can't get on the server he's playing, and he can't get on the servers I'm playing.
Also there are servers I still drive despite I don't get points there.. why? Because I like the tracks (fun.. And thats what its about ;))
The current system with ladderpoints is ok.. But there should be an increase of players imo.. Now it happens a lot that you have to wait a long time on servers before getting to play a few rounds, or you train a week long on Sunday's maps for RoC, and you just don't get to play because either the queue is fuller then full.. Or you get kicked by the spectimer when your waiting in queue
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by tcq » 29 Sep 2008 17:32

Hmm, thx for this new try zooz. I'll stay only on the ladder thing now.
Now i'm going on to the ladder.

I really like the idea to let the skilled players take the lead on the ladder. But one problem is, that the server is only opened at sunday form 15 to 17 GMT.
It would be rally better, to set up a few alternative dates, so that more player have the chance to fight on this servers.
For example, a friend of mine has to work every sunday evening so he won't be able to play there and try to show a few nice fights.
Also there are players from USA,Australia or China which aren't to drive then.
I think a nice resolution could be, to allow this server all week, but only allow one login to take place in 3 or 5h effectiv race. This could be done by filtering, if he is in spec or driving and by counting the time per race.

Another idea is, to set the ladder maximum up to maybe 115k and allow stadium only players only to drive until 100k.
So you will favor the players who spend money for TMU. Because they will see that nadoe supports them.
Also the top players on the ladder will mostly be players that are able to drive well on more than one environment. Sure there could be players that buy tmu but only play stadium, but this could be prevent by only allow players to play on the RoC Server, which have also a minimum points on other environments.
R602 Klompie wrote:Do NOT allow players with a rank higher then 50.000 to play on the low rank servers, and do so with the other ladder points as well.
meaning a 90k + player cannot drive on a <90k server... and so on for the other rank server limits. This would mean that one cannot drive on ones own server at times for points, but it will allso reduce the "boosting" actions tremendously.
The idea isn't bad, but i think its a bit annoying if you are a 90+ player and the 90+ server are only open for 3 hours at all.
Would be better if you could play on lower servers without giving points to others.

Edit:
And another really cute thing could be the possibility to sort the serverlist in tmu after RoC server, just like it is possible with team mode or so.
Then there could be also some kind of identification by this servers.
Example:
ET Champions runs all week the tracks for the RoC on Sunday.
So than there could be the possibility to write in the server details that this is a RoC server on sunday.
So all players could see that this server has the maps and could train them for nice races.
At the moment you train the maps maybe 15mins and mainly win all races, because the most players join that server without knowing that maps.
Sure if you are a high skilled player like our lovely admin here you win without knowing that maps, but if not you are not such a pgm ;) you suck on that maps and it makes no fun to race. On both sides, the winner and the loser lose :(

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by RdV » 30 Sep 2008 08:17

Another idea is, to set the ladder maximum up to maybe 115k and allow stadium only players only to drive until 100k.
So you will favor the players who spend money for TMU. Because they will see that nadoe supports them.
Also the top players on the ladder will mostly be players that are able to drive well on more than one environment. Sure there could be players that buy tmu but only play stadium, but this could be prevent by only allow players to play on the RoC Server, which have also a minimum points on other environments.
Again, don't think this will be the best solution. I have TMU, but have played the other enviroments about 3/4 times in all the years I'm playing this game. And my skills in Stadium are ok, but put me on a Bay or Coast track.. And I'll suck donkeyass. So that way you give players a big disadvantage.
Like I said, ladderrules are ok a.t.m but make more capacity for players, or open RoC also on another day.. Thousands of players, on sunday for 3 hours a few 6 spots servers = endless queues.
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by dirtye » 30 Sep 2008 19:31

Zooz wrote: If you don't like the restrictions in the upper regions of the ladder, the under 50k servers are probably what you're looking for.
[/b]
...and if you dislike it, Play another Game...
Is it that what Nadeo want to see in less then 6 Month? Dont know if it is ok for all, because 99,8% of the older TM Community are agreed to new Ladder Mode and left playing TM after a few years.
TM was absolutly The Best MultiPlayerOnline Game, it was The Communtiy Building Game, but now everthing is going down.

The Ladder in TMU was good and better was Ladder in TMS, never there was an discussion lke this, only StadiumPlayers in Nations had these Problems,
so my Plan where disable LadderRankings in TMNF or seperate them, its a Free Game and i think its less then 10% who buyed TMUF after playing TMNF.

Against LOL-Maps Nadeo could "code" any in Map-Editor like Min. corners/edges/checkpoints... to use and a minimum ChallengeTime from maybee "35sec."
if the Map didnt use this pre-coded min parts/times the Map can not Play Official to get LadderPoints. :1

If player really want to mes up her skillz against other Players they do it in any leagues like ESL, ET or other Community Leagues, thats was before and that will be the future, but destroy the fun of a "Community Game" can not be the answer.

Maybe this thread will be ignored deleted or any :| , but i will only say

Wake UP Nadeo !!!
Before its to late, once a player is gone he never comeing back. :cry:
The community WAS big but lost lot of Great Players since TMUF-Ladder and it will be more.

And if "older" players read this, tell me if i lie or if it´s true what i say :roll: ?

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Great Game is goin down, and all close there eyes.
Sorry 4 my Bad English sometimes, but im german ;)
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by thurma » 30 Sep 2008 20:35

Í just can say that something has changed with tm. Have played it for about four years now and I love it :D . But right now the ladder system dont work very well since it was started to have same points for all environments.

And the question is if its more fun now when the players is seperated because of what points and rank you have. I think not! It should be open for all like it used to. Many feels disappointed when they cant play with their teammates. Its just my opinion.

Not funny when you know how many loved this great online game and now many leaves it because how it works.

Feels like going backwards when I know it worked muched better when I played Tms and how the ladder system worked back then. I still love the game and dont want to loose more players.............. Thurma

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by wilameta » 30 Sep 2008 22:32

I am a Nations player but it seems to me there should be some separation between United ladder and Nations if for no other reason than to give an incentive to buy United.

Maybe have the United ladder go to 110k.
Or United players earn more points per race.
I'm sure there could be other examples as well.

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by ςρεεδ»Ðε๓๏ก » 30 Sep 2008 22:41

So hi all,
i'm quite new into TM and i only play Island, but i also want to say that this ladder-system; just like it is now; is dividing the community, too much. It's a public game and just like "dirtye" says, the really high-skilled pro's will compete in leagues and stuff and this system will only destroy a wonderful public community out there.
In my opinion it's uncommon and lucky that a online game has a comunity that develops by itself so fast and great like TM, they shouldn't take that for granted! :sweet:
So Nadeo, please think twice and don't drown a fantastic online game in regulations and limitations.

Greetings, ςρεεδ»Ðε๓๏ก :lovetm
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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Zooz » 30 Sep 2008 23:43

wilameta wrote: Or United players earn more points per race.
They already do (well, the other 6 envs give more points)

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by wilameta » 01 Oct 2008 02:01

Zooz wrote: They already do (well, the other 6 envs give more points)
How about giving United players higher priority in the que then?

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by tcq » 01 Oct 2008 06:00

wilameta wrote:How about giving United players higher priority in the que then?
If they play on united server, that wouldn't make sence ^^

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Re: Laddertop rules discussion

Post by Rax » 01 Oct 2008 21:07

or just disable nations ability to get above 90k. or if just seperate the ladders from that point onwards

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